Welcome back to Once A dj, the show where we talk about what brings us together and what sets us apart.

I'm Adam Gow, as usual.

And with me, I've got a man, a legend, Seattle legend, a digging legend, newly crowned king of the Drum Break supreme, Laroque.

How are you doing today, sir?

Greetings.

Glad to be here.

Honored to be here.

You had some great guests, so I feel good.

I. I appreciate that.

Yeah.

So if we just kick off, then I'm sure we've got a lot of different things to get into, like doing my research.

I did.

I knew you'd done a lot, but I didn't realize how much and how.

And just how early you started.

So do you just want to talk about your early years, where you grew up and how you first got into music?

Right.

Okay.

So it's crazy.

I've always been into music.

When I was four years old, I received a turntable for Christmas with some records.

And I was kind of mesmerized watching it spinning a circle.

I thought it was kind of hypnotic.

And also it.

You know, the era.

The covers were kind of psychedelic, so they kind of popped out and stood out.

So what era was this?

This was.

I was born in the 60s.

Late 60s.

Right.

And so.

And then hearing and then having, like, sound come out of a piece of plastic.

And I'm like 4 years old, and I'm like, what's going on?

How does this work?

So that was kind of like what got me.

Drew me into it at first, but also then they told me, like, I didn't like any of the children's records.

I'd go to their funk and soul records as a little kid, and that's what I wanted to hear.

What do you think it was that.

That drew you to them sort of at that age?

I just think it was the feeling it gave you.

Like, it was just.

It made you want to move around, made you want to dance like it.

That's soul, Right.

So were your parents pretty serious collectors themselves?

Not at all.

My mom, not at all.

My dad, you know, he had a decent collection.

He had Curtis Mayfield and Miles Davis and things like that.

So how were you able to sort of increase your knowledge and I guess, did you have that thirst for more at that age, or did that come a bit later?

No, I'd have the thirst for more at all.

But what's funny is I had this cousin that would babysit me, so my parents would drop me off with my cousin.

And for some reason, he was a record guy, but he Loved the Beatles.

That's all he would play.

He wouldn't play anything else, only the Beatles.

But I'd stay with him all day and he'd just play me, like, record after record.

We just literally sit there and listen to records all day long until I got picked up.

And so I think that also did something to me to spark my interest in records.

And maybe even then, hearing the same group over and over, maybe that made me think, well, what else is there?

What else can I hear?

Yeah, yeah.

I suppose there's so much stuff that we've talked about, the Beatles loads on here, but I suppose there's so much stuff that's kind of derivative somewhat from them.

And they had such a range of influences themselves.

Right.

So from there, where did you progress then?

When.

When did it become serious for you?

Well, it did get serious for a long time around then.

You know, I got my first allowance and so I asked my parents, can I go to the record store?

And at the time, I loved the rock group Kiss.

They were like superheroes to little kids in the 70s or late 70s.

And so I bought a Kiss record.

Then.

I was buying, like you said, just the staples and the popular stuff.

I loved Elton John, various pop records because I heard it on the radio.

You know, I wasn't knowing about obscure or private press or independent stuff.

Did Kiss have a lot of merchandise?

Oh, yeah.

Crazy.

I think Bill A Coin, that was their manager at the time.

He was kind of like a marketing guru.

I think maybe Gene Simmons was too.

I don't know if he was at that point, but I know he turned into one over the years.

But they had everything.

They had everything you could think of.

So.

Were you, like, upon merch?

Because I know this is another thing.

It's, you know, you're not just a record collector.

There's a.

There's There's a few different things that you're deep into.

Right.

Were you on the sort of merch at that point?

Not really.

Not heavy.

I did have some things.

I remember getting a belt buckle, I got a rug.

Kind of like if we were out and about and I saw something, I'd ask if we could get it or I could get it, or I'd save my money and go get it.

But I wasn't serious and it wasn't a deep collection.

Yeah.

Did.

Did Kiss sort of.

Because they were.

I always find it weird, like, the label Casablanca, because you had all this, like, sort of high energy, I guess, like Italo skewing sort of disco stuff.

And then you had Kiss on it, right?

Like, was.

Did.

Did that.

Did them being on that label expose you any anyway to any disco stuff?

No, I didn't know anything.

I was a little kid.

I didn't know anything about a record label.

I. I just knew about the band, Right?

No.

So later on, you know, when I was a teenager and I went to New York when I was 14, 13 or 14 around there, that's when I witnessed and discovered hip hop.

What was that first experience?

Oh, it was crazy.

So I was in the summertime and I was visiting a family, and maybe every night around dusk, you notice people started coming outside with boomboxes, you know, creating ciphers.

And then they were B Boys.

And it was a party block party, basically.

And that was like.

That was kind of like how I said Kiss were superheroes then.

B Boys were my new superheroes when I was a teenager.

Right.

Like, when I saw that, I couldn't believe it.

And I wanted to do that in Seattle.

Were you.

Were you growing up in the city?

Yes.

Was there any sort of hip hop going on there then at that point?

No, not at all.

No.

Like, zero.

I almost.

I almost feel like I was the one that brought hip hop to Seattle, because I would tell everybody about it.

They didn't know what I was talking about.

Nobody had heard of it.

The only people that had heard of it were east coast transplants that might have been here because of the military.

And so they were stationed here.

We have a military base called Fort Lewis.

And actually, I forgot her name.

It was Wizkidd's wife, and she was in a group called Sweet Trio on Tommy Boy.

She was stationed there.

So Wizkid ended up moving out here, and I met him and became friends with him.

Right, right.

So when you came back to Seattle, then after that summer, how was it trying to get more of the culture?

It was hard.

Like, there was no Internet and everything was, like, word of mouth, basically.

Like I said, you had to know, meet somebody or know somebody that knew what I was talking about.

And the only people were east coast people.

So twice while I was, like, walking around through the city, I saw this guy one day walking towards me.

And we both had, like, fat laces in our sneakers and name belt buckles and kangals on.

So we instantly just recognized each other.

And we stopped and started talking to each other.

Nobody was dressing like that at all.

Like, we stuck out like sore thumbs.

But, you know, we met each other and then kind of the same thing.

I met another guy like that, and those Were like the first two guys I met in the hip hop, and they were both from the East Coast.

So was it with.

With the hip hop that you first had heard then when you said it was the block party, was it more like the breaks and stuff?

Not especially.

It was because they had boomboxes.

So say there'd be like 15 people with a boombox and they'd all put on Kiss.

I think Red Alert was DJing.

So they'd put on the radio station, which it wasn't necessarily breaks, but it might be like Freeze aiou or something like that.

So you're talking sort of 82ish then, right?

Like the sort of electro stuff.

Exactly.

That was like 81, 82.

Right, got it.

So what was the development then, like, of hip hop in Seattle?

And what, were you kind of at the center of that movement?

Yeah, pretty much.

For the most part, yes.

But it still didn't really wasn't recognized until Flashdance came out.

When the movie Flashdance came out, then a lot of people saw what breaking was, and then they kind of was trying to do it.

And it started to bubble at that point.

I mean, it bubbled that point all across the world, I think.

I've never actually seen Flash dance.

Yeah, you need to go watch it.

Is that another one where she's like a classical dancer but then has to learn to dance hip hop or something?

Well, she's a classical dancer, but she.

See, she's walking around in the city and she sees hip hop.

She sees, like, breaking on the streets, but she does.

She does end up doing it in the movie, at the end of the movie, which is actually Crazy legs.

Shout out.

Crazy Legs.

Right.

Who was the stunt double for her?

Crazy.

Were you getting any?

Because I'm guessing, like, my geography is not great, but were you getting any of the sort of west coast stuff traveling up from la?

Tons.

Tons of it.

And then it was just different.

Like, they just had their own way of dancing.

The dance was different.

Was it always the New York stuff that was more your love then?

For me, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

When did you sort of start to think I might want to be a dj?

Well, this whole time I was buying records.

I never stopped buying records.

And so then when I was a B boy, I was buying records to dance to.

And I don't know if you remember, a Village Voice came out the New York newspaper, and there was an issue where they interviewed Bambaata and he put, like, his top 100 records in there.

So when I saw that, I was like, oh, I need to get all these records.

I remember the first one that I found was Baby Healy and the Babysitters Listen to Me.

And so when I found that and I listened to it, I really didn't understand it.

Like, I was still young.

I was still, you know, a teen.

And I didn't see how that was really hip hop.

I didn't really understand breaks yet necessarily, but that was one of the first records I got.

And then when the movie Wild Style came out, it might have been around the same time or not too long after.

And then there's the scene in the kitchen with Grandmaster Flash.

He was cutting up Bob James, take me to the Mardi Gras.

Yeah.

Have you.

I was talking about this on an episode the other day with someone.

Because that's on the.

On the kind of video release of it and stuff.

It's not actually.

The audio's not on there, is it?

So have you heard it with the.

With the Mardi Gras audio?

Right.

I heard the original one.

I heard do the licensing.

They changed it for the reissue of the movie or whatever.

But, yeah, yeah, but.

So I heard.

I heard the Mardi Gras break, and I was like, yo, what is that?

I was trying to figure out what record is that?

And I knew this dj and I talked to him, and he told me, oh, that's Bob James.

And I was like, who?

You know, I didn't know who Bob James was.

So I went to the record store, like, the next day, and I'm looking and I'm like, nah, it's this old white guy.

Nah, this can't be it.

And, you know, it was like, 99 cents.

So I bought it, I took the gamble, I went home, and that was it.

And I was, like, floored.

And it was funny, is I went the next day to that same record store, and I bought every copy they had.

I didn't want anyone else to have it.

Right, right.

Although no one was really even looking for it at that time.

Did you.

Did you have kind of doubles in mind at that point, or was it purely just to stop other people having it?

It was.

I didn't have doubles in mind at all at that point.

I hadn't really known about doubles until I saw Flash, like, cutting that up.

And then I remember a guy who put a record out, and he brought me two copies.

It was like a record pool or something.

I remember I went to get the records, and they gave me two copies, and I said, oh, I only need one.

And they said, don't you, dj?

I Said, yeah.

They said, well you need two.

And I'm thinking, what do I need two for?

So I still didn't really get it.

Yeah.

But not too long after that, I went to a Treacherous Three show.

They had came to town and their dj, Eazy Lee did a routine cutting up doubles.

And then that's when it hit me, like, oh, that's what that is.

And when I saw that again, it was like finding Kiss or finding hip hop for the first time.

When I saw their DJ cut doubles, I was floored.

I was like, oh, I have to learn that.

Yeah, yeah.

So had you been djing out at this point?

No, not at all.

Just in my room.

Just a kid at home just playing records in my room.

I wasn't really DJing like that.

Did you have a hi Fi then or did you have turntables?

Well, it's funny because I just looked around the house.

So whatever we had, I grabbed it and put it all together.

Was like my parents equipment and it was mis, mismatched turntables.

And one of the turntables I like a spring on the platter.

It was real bouncy and I had like a eight track player in the front of it.

Yeah.

And I was using the volume knob like for a mixer.

I didn't have a mixer yet.

So from that point then what was your journey into DJing?

Well, I realized that I wanted to do what I saw.

So I went out and I got a mixer.

It was the Radio Shack realistic mixer, I think was like 25 bucks.

It was a.

It's funny, it was like a four channel mixer, but they were mono channels.

So I would glue a toothpick on the left and right faders to make it.

One fader.

Yeah.

So it was basically two faders up and down, no cross fader.

That's how I started.

And it worked for me.

Then eventually they came out with the so called nice mixer, which I upgraded to.

And it had the fader on it.

So when did you start doing parties and stuff then?

Probably around ninth grade in school, like I do.

Friends.

Friends.

Parties when you were at school.

Then in, in the early days of, before the sort of hip hop explosion, what did people think of your kind of B boy style and stuff like that?

Were you an outcast or did like, were people bothered or.

Initially I was kind of an outcast.

It was just different than everybody else.

But you know, a few years had gone by and had caught on.

But like you said, those west coast like Breaking the Movie had came out and a lot of west coast stuff.

So people were dressing like, in baggy pants and handkerchiefs around their ankles and parachute pants, Japanese sleeveless shirts and stuff like that.

But I was always rocking like dope ass Lee jeans and sneakers no one's ever seen that I'd get when I'd go to New York, things like that.

Yeah.

So even when it had exploded, you were still in your own lane?

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, I just call it real hip hop.

To me, that's what it was.

It was just authentic east coast original hip hop.

So you said you started DJing in the ninth grade?

Yeah, I mean, I've been djing at home, like I said.

But then, you know, so friends knew that I DJ'd and they'd say, oh, it's my birthday, we DJ my birthday.

Sure.

And then that's kind of how I started.

And then I think I was like 16, there was a nightclub and their DJ got sick and they needed a DJ at the last minute and they didn't know what they were going to do when somebody there knew me and they called me and that was my first gig.

And they're like, I think they paid me $50 and I was like, ecstatic.

And I wasn't even old enough.

I wasn't supposed to be in the club.

I guess I think the law is you can work in there if you're underage, but you can't just be in there.

Right.

Is it 21 over there?

Yes, yes.

But I had to stay outside until I, it was time to dj, then I had to leave immediately when I was done.

Yeah, so with those early gigs then since, you know, you've been kind of buying, buying what you're into all this time.

Was the music right for the crowd?

No, not at all.

I mean, not at all.

I learned that within, like 10 minutes.

Like, I got it.

I got up there and I was cutting and I was scratching and they're just looking at me.

I don't think any DJ had ever done that yet around these parts.

And they're just looking at me like, what's this guy doing?

And then I, I don't, I don't remember what record I dropped, but everybody just stood around and I was like, oh, this was a good.

So did you have enough records to kind of get around that?

I remember because I remember an early gig that I did.

I mean, I, I, I only started DJing more out when I was like 20 something.

I was kind of late with it, but I went and I got a gig at this bar that I thought would be good.

And I got in there and I only had the Small Crater records and a lot of it was like sort of independent hip hop and a bit of soul and funk.

And Yeah, I had that thing where quite quickly I realized everything I had wasn't right.

Right.

I think I'd play the same song about three times at least, because I was like, I just feel like someone's just gonna smack me or something.

Yeah, Like I've just got totally the wrong stuff.

And you just like.

It's that thing where he's like, right, I'm here for another three hours.

I've just got to grip my teeth with this and get on.

Yeah, it's not a good feeling.

The thing that saved me that night was the club actually had records there.

They would keep records in the booth, so I was able to pull from their library.

And of course they had all the pop hits that people wanted to hear.

So somebody requested something, I'd go and try to dig it out real quick.

But I learned that night.

I learned that night there's more to DJing than rocking doubles of Take Me to the Mar that I.

If I'm going to do this, I better learn this part of it as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So did that kind of put you off trying to get more gigs for a while or anything like that?

Yeah, I didn't even want gigs.

I mean, I never set out to be like, oh, I'm gonna be a dj.

It's just something I was doing for fun because I loved it.

I never thought.

I never even thought about doing gigs.

And then like, like you said after that one, I probably then DJ out for at least two years.

Did.

So when you went back sort of two years later, had things caught up with you if you like had an.

Or had things in the city, got to a point where there was an audience for you for your type of DJing.

Yeah, there was a nightclub called Spectrum, and it was pretty much a hip hop, R and B, black music club.

And they had like Ice T, Comm, Utfo T Laroc, where they would bring acts all the time.

And so I would go there, I'd just go there to hang out.

And then I don't even really remember how it came about, but that was like my second gig.

They gave me a gig to DJ there.

And by that point all of this was blowing up.

Rap music had started, you know, starting to get popular, sucker MCs and stuff like that.

And so there was an audience for the music I was into.

So from that point, from that gig in the club, did things kind of ramp up then?

Yeah, because at that point I was meeting a lot of people.

I was getting a little older still, just buying records like crazy and realizing, like, I remember, like, Eric B and Rakim came out and I recognized like half the songs because like you said, it was somebody else's music.

And I was like, wait, my dad had that record?

Or I know this.

And then I started realizing they're cutting up records and sampling or replaying.

And I'm like, well, how are they?

How are these records being made?

And then like, I went to the music store.

It's called American Music.

And then, you know, that was like the first guitar center where.

But they had all, like the DMX drum machine.

They had all these machines that I started playing with and learned, oh, that's the sound on the LL Cool J record, or this and that.

And then so that opened me up to start making music.

I was like, I want to try to make some music.

So I was DJing and then I thought it was like a natural progression to go into how are these made?

And start production.

Had you left school at this point?

No, I was almost out of school.

I was probably.

I was a junior.

Right.

So was this the point where you started the kind of production company?

Yes, exactly.

I met a.

Met a friend of mine and we just clicked and we started producing together.

He was real talented.

And that was point blank, wasn't it?

Yes, exactly.

A company.

So how did you.

What, what was the cause?

It was just in an article I was reading about.

So what was the setup?

Were you guys producing for MCs or how was it working?

Well, we would just make beats, we would just make music, and we just pretty much made it to listen to.

We weren't really giving it to anybody.

And then we thought about making our own group.

And then at that point, my dream was to be on wax.

I wanted to have a record out.

I wanted to be able to walk in any record store and see my record next to EPMD or next to Eric B.

And I guess tapes were circulating, like around the neighborhoods.

And so then all the rappers started hearing and they're like, what's this?

Who are these guys?

And then they started approaching us.

So we were producing a lot of local rappers.

Was there much competition?

No, it was pretty much just like Sir Mix a lot.

Nobody else was really doing it.

There was a group called the Emerald Street Boys, but their sound was also a lot different.

Again, people.

People didn't even know we were from around here.

They thought we were on the east coast because of our sound.

A lot of.

A lot of the sound here was keyboards and drum machines and we were cutting up records.

Like, I remember going to studio.

One of the records I use was Rock Creek park, and I just rock doubles of it and loop the beginning.

And then I went back and over dubbed some drums over it.

And the engineer was like, I've never seen anything like that.

Like, he was floored by the way I was producing the song.

Did you.

Were you quite kind of careful about the engineers that you worked with?

No, not at all.

I really didn't know anything about them.

Just because I only asked that because when I was listening through a load of your older stuff, like, the engineering's always really on point, it seems.

Oh, well, thank you.

I think that was just us.

I feel like we pretty much did everything.

We were just in the studio that a guy owned.

Know what I mean?

Right.

So from that point, then what came next?

And did you.

Did you prioritize one over the other in DJing, in production?

I was trying to prioritize production because that's what I really wanted to do.

And then my first record that came out was in 87.

And it's funny because really it was 86.

But I said, let's put 87 on it because it was like six months before it was 87.

I was like, people are gonna think it's old.

They're not gonna buy it.

That's what I thought in my mind, we gotta put the next year on it or people won't buy it.

But so that record came out and then we got a deal after that.

We actually.

We were trying to get on with Nasty Mix, who put mix a lot out, and they were interested, but they said, we have.

We have high performance.

We have Criminal Nation.

I think it was the Wee Papa Girls or something.

I don't know, some girl group.

They had like this group effects.

Basically, they were saying we could work together, but it's going to be a while, like get in line.

And I didn't like that.

I wanted to be prioritized, you know, I think when you're young and hungry, you're ready to come out immediately.

And I'm not understanding how it works or promo rollouts or none of that.

I want to go.

In my mind, I want to go to the studio Friday, mix it on Saturday and have you guys put it out on Monday.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

So I kind of wasn't feeling waiting around or being on the Back Burner and another label approached us and we ended up signing with them.

That was Enigma, I think was called Ever Wrapped Records Distributed by Enigma.

What was the learning curve like then?

It was.

It was kind of frustrating.

Like I said, I really didn't know what I was doing.

I was young and wanted things to move at a.

At a faster pace.

And then when we signed with this label, our record never came out.

And I remember they gave us a.

They gave us a deadline, whatever the deadline was.

I think I was like six weeks past the deadline when I turned the masters in.

And then they said they just kind of sat on them, and then it just never came out.

And they just dissolved the deal.

But what I found out recently was they went bankrupt.

It wasn't due to turning in late masters.

They wouldn't have put it out anyway.

So where do you go from there then?

Well, it kind of left me kind of like crush my dreams, and I didn't want to do it at all anymore.

I was like, I'll just go get a job, be an average Joe.

And I was working in a restaurant.

And.

I don't remember the year, but the Main Source album had came out, Breaking Adams.

I think that might be 91.

I think so.

And I remember I bought it.

I was like, after work, I bought it.

I'm listening to it.

And I could not believe how incredible that album was.

And it, like, sparked the fire in me.

Like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

This is what I want to do.

And so I fully jumped back into it.

But I was always messing with records that whole time.

I never stopped messing with records or DJing.

But I got a gig, then somebody, some nightclub wanted me to DJ.

And so I started DJing.

And then, I don't know, I guess people liked me.

And then all these clubs wanted me to DJ.

I was DJing constantly.

And then DJing was paying my bills.

That was my bread and butter.

So I kind of.

I kind of ended up leaning that way in the dj, you know, profession.

Were you.

How much of what you were playing was hip hop and how much was kind of more mainstream pop stuff?

Okay.

So it's funny because when I started this gig, it was.

It was just straight hip hop.

I mean, Tee La Rock and stuff like that.

I mean, stuff I loved and I wanted to hear.

Here I was 100%, you know, being true to myself.

And with.

They had a guest.

They booked this guest DJ with me one night, and he played a bunch of crap.

And I remember thinking, man, this Dude's terrible.

What is this?

Why is he doing this?

But what I noticed was the ladies never left the dance floor and that the party was cracking off.

And then at the end of the night, we were just hanging out and he was telling me, like, I know all these records suck, but you saw the reaction and that he had learned how to open his mind and still play the dope stuff, but mix it up real well and kind of appease the people that are there paying their money to come to the party.

And so at that point, it kind of opened my mind, man, I might need to do that myself.

If I want some longevity and I want to work, I'm going to need to do this.

And then I did that for years, and up until recently, fairly recently, I stopped doing it.

I feel like I came full circle now because now I'm just doing what I want to do.

I'm kind of like taking it back to the beginning and to the underground where it all started.

Because what I realized was, yeah, I'd make some good money, I'd do some great parties, but I didn't feel good on my drive home.

Something was missing and I didn't feel good about myself or the event.

And now what I realize is I feel great and I'm happy and I'm playing dope shit.

And then the parties are excellent.

And then I realize, you can have that, you can have that.

Like a lot of my people I talk to, they're like, oh, I have to play to the crowd, I have to do this.

I'm like, no, you don't.

You're the dj.

You don't have to read a crowd.

The crowd could come there to see you and listen to what you're going to bring to the table.

Literally.

But how, how long?

So say we're talking about a 30 year period, right?

Right.

If you're DJing.

So for the first, say 20, 25 years, or say 20 years in the middle of that, you were doing that mix of appeasing the audience, keeping the women on the dance floor and playing a bit of what you want, and then you've just gone back full circle on it.

How much earlier could you have gone back to doing what you're doing now?

Do you know what I mean?

Because.

Because you've got such a name.

And.

Such a reputation in it, people will come to see you.

But it's hard, isn't it, when you've not got that name and you get the opportunities.

It's.

You've got a kind of.

You've got to do that kind of appeasing people, I think.

Right.

It's very hard.

But what I also realized, if you're doing that and you're playing the same thing everyone else is playing, what makes you any different?

You might be the nice.

You know, you might be nice with the cuts and scratches and all that, but if you're playing that same crappy music, what's really setting you apart?

You're just a cookie cutter.

So you're never going to stand out, never going to be different, never going to be unique.

That's just how I see it.

So how are you going to make that name for yourself?

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

So just going back then, the sort of early to early 90s, you did start a label as well, didn't you?

Yeah.

So there was a guy around town that I DJed, and he was a collector, that was DJ Sureshot.

And I knew he was big into reggae.

And then like I told you, when I heard the Main Source album, they were cutting up the Sister Nancy Bonbon.

And so I was looking for an original copy of the record.

I don't even remember how I figured out what it was.

Like, I said, this is pre Internet.

You couldn't just Google who sampled what or what's the sample.

But I figured it out and I saw him in the street and I stopped him and I said, hey, man, I'm looking for this record.

Sister Dancy Bar Mom.

He said, oh, I'm looking for that.

My own cell.

And so we switched.

We, like exchanged numbers.

I called him a few days later to hang out.

I wanted to go see his records.

And he lived like two blocks away.

And I walked over.

Yeah, I walked over there and he was showing me all these records.

And he had just came back from San Francisco.

He said, oh, I bought all these at Groove Merchant.

He was showing me all these funk, rare funk albums.

And he said, they're starting a record label called Ubiquity.

And I said, oh, I got some stuff, you know, I got some beats.

We should try to do something.

And he called the guy on the phone, shout out Michael McFadden.

He called him on the phone and played something over the phone and he loved it.

And he was like, oh, I'm signing.

He like signed us on the spot.

So if you go, I think we're on the first read on the first or second record.

I think it's the first record that they ever put out.

And it was a compilation.

And then from that point we did an album for some reason, he didn't want to put the album out, so we said, well, we'll put it out ourselves.

We'll just start our own thing next.

That's how we started our label.

And me and him and we got a guy named Strass shepherd that I was working with at the Flavor magazine.

We brought him along and we started Conception Records.

And then.

So that was the Sharpshooters, wasn't it?

Yes.

Now.

I found it really interesting because, like, listening through it, it's.

It's kind of acid jazz, but it's kind of hip hop as well, isn't it?

Whereas a lot of acid jazz doesn't have that sort of grit to it.

Right.

It's because I think with acid jazz, it's.

It's kind of come full circle now.

But it was quite unfashionable for quite a long time, wasn't it?

But there's a few things that have kind of escaped that.

And I think your album, to me is one of those because it's still got that grit sonically to it.

But it's interesting, like how I didn't realize how much exposure that had had and how well that did sort of in Japan, in the uk, in places like that.

Was that something you expected?

Not at all.

Not at all.

We put it out then.

It was crazy because I ran into, like, Prince Paul somewhere and he was like, talking about this great record and told me, and I'm like, oh, that's my record.

So incidents like that are like.

People are like, oh, we saw you on mtv.

And I'm like, I'm on mtv.

And then I saw the clip later where they were talking about our album.

So, I mean, it was crazy.

Stuff like that was.

Was happening.

I heard someone in London said, oh, who was.

I forgot.

I think Eric Clapton.

They said, Eric Clapton.

Somebody saw Eric Clapton buying the Sharpshooters album.

Wow.

In the record store.

I'm like, oh, that's nuts.

Yeah.

So did you get to travel on the back of the album?

Yeah.

So we ended up signing a deal as the group the Sharpshooters with Shadow Instinct Records.

So the funny story with that is acid jazz was taken off, as you just mentioned, and they wanted a group.

They wanted to sign an acid jazz group.

So.

So they flew to London to find a group to sign them.

And I guess they went in a record store and it said, like, what's a hot.

It was the hot group out here or something.

They said the Sharpshooters and they played them the record and the guy was like, yeah, we want to sign them.

And then he found out we were from Seattle, Washington, in the usa.

But he ended up signing us.

The only sign with them.

They had us travel, and they had us going overseas and doing stuff.

Were there any particular memories that stand out from those early sort of travels?

So the only memories that stand out was me meeting record collectors and getting really, really rare stuff.

Now, that's impossible.

That cost thousands of dollars that I was getting almost for free back then.

And I was just.

Because there was not.

Just because there wasn't the same sort of mass hunger for that type of breaks.

I think so.

I think.

I think, like, Internet was kind of just coming out, so it was still new.

They couldn't really do research like that.

Like.

Like, you can now.

There wasn't a discogs look up a price or the history.

And maybe, maybe back then, like you said, maybe those records were just around.

It was still early.

And, like, I remember trading somebody.

I brought.

I would bring a box of American records to trade with other DJs and collectors.

But I remember this guy wanted Shaft in Africa, the soundtrack super bad.

And he was like, I'll trade you this placebo Ball of Eyes album for the Shaft in Africa.

I'm like, okay.

Now, at the time, I'm not knowing that that's a crazy, lopsided deal.

I'm just like, okay, cool.

I like, that's a cool record.

But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, wow, you did all right.

Yeah, I did okay.

I've done okay over the years.

So, yeah, I was gonna say, when.

When did.

Do you feel like you got to, like, another level in terms of, like, wanting to chase sort of rare, like, with the collecting of the records, where it became.

This is really serious.

That's.

That's hard to pinpoint, but I know around the mid-90s.

So I used to have, like, a $8 limit on spending.

Like, if a record was more than $8, I wouldn't buy it.

I just thought that was too much money.

And I'd go out and I remember I went out one day.

I used to go out probably every other day.

I just hit all the records, record stores, just regularly.

I remember one day I noticed, like, all the CTI stuff wasn't there anymore.

Stuff I would see every day.

It was just gone one day.

And I asked the guy in the store, hey, where'd all this.

Where'd all your jazz go?

And he would say, oh, some British guys came in and bought it all.

It's like some Japanese guys came in the other day.

They, like, wiped out the whole soul section.

I'm like, huh?

So I noticed things were drying up, so I started buying stuff because I used to be like, oh, it's $10.

I'll wait a few days and find it for five somewhere else.

Yeah.

Then I realized the time I'm spending trying to find it to save a few bucks ain't worth it.

Just pay the 10 when you see it or just get it when you see it, because you might not see it again.

So I kind of think at that point I started getting a little serious.

The first expensive record I bought was the Skull Snaps.

And I think that was 50, 50 or $60.

And I thought I was out of my mind.

I thought I had lost my mind painting that much for a record.

What would that cost now?

I think it's like 750.

Wow.

It's like with anything, though.

Look at gasoline or a sandwich.

Everything's through the roof now, you know, like, 10 bucks.

Ten dollars?

A hundred dollars is the new $10.

Basically, yeah.

Yeah.

So your production partner.

I'm sorry, I forget his name.

So the other sharpshooter, he moved to London, didn't he?

He did.

He lived in London for five years?

I believe so.

And am I right in thinking you were going over in summers to work on stuff with him?

I would come visit, yes.

Yeah.

So how did you find record shopping in London?

Oh, it was incredible.

I couldn't believe all the good stuff they had.

So what's funny is, I remember going in Soul Brother, and like I told you, anytime I travel, I'll bring a box with me of decent stuff for trade because sometimes I could find it fairly cheap here and get, you know, a decent amount on my return.

And I remember going in Soul Brother, and I said, hey, I got some records I want to trade.

And he said, oh, we're not interested.

He didn't even look at him.

He just said, we're not interested.

And I said, okay.

And then a customer came in, I think from France, and he had some cain and Abel LPs.

And he was trying to sell to them, and they were buying.

He had a bunch of them.

He had, like, some stock of them.

And I said, oh, can I buy a couple?

And then he said, yeah.

And I said, oh, see if there's anything you want in my box.

And he bent down and he started going through it.

And the guy, the clerk saw it and lost his mind, was like, yo, yo, yo.

And, like, stopped and was like, we want all These.

We want to buy all these.

But he wasn't interested at first, so I thought that was a funny story.

That's weird.

Yeah, but they had good stuff.

And then I met Giuliano from the Creators.

Somebody had hooked us up.

Somebody knew him in New York that knew me and hooked us up.

So I got to go to his place and get records.

And, you know, he was a monster with the records.

And were you early in.

Because from what I understand with Julian, the big thing was the library records.

And he was getting a lot of library stuff over to America.

Wasn't right?

Right.

Nobody knew what those were yet.

Those were.

So was he like, hooking you up with a load of KPM to take back over and.

Oh, yeah, all that.

All the libraries.

But I also met jazz man Gerald at that same time because we went to Camden Market.

We went to Camden Market, like on a Sunday, and there was some guy selling records outside.

And I remember I flipped through real quick.

I really didn't see nothing I wanted.

And sure Shot had walked up, you see?

Did you find anything?

I said, now this guy doesn't have anything.

And he heard me.

I feel like he was offended.

I said, he didn't have anything.

And he said, oh, well, what do you want?

What are you looking for?

And I named him, like 20 records.

Like 20 rare records.

And he said, okay, anything else?

I said, oh, you got all these?

He said, yeah, I have all of them.

And I said, well, where are they at?

He said, they're at home.

I said, well, I need to go to your home.

He said, okay, you come by tomorrow.

And then that started my relationship with Jasmine Gerald, which we traded records with each other for years.

And he was another guy that was a beast with the records.

And I also met Percy at Jazz Cafe that would sell records out there.

I've not heard of him.

Yeah, he passed away a while ago.

But he had good stuff.

I met, like, Des Trousseint.

He was a record dealer out there.

I started meeting, like, all the.

All the heavy hitters in London.

When you went on tour, then say, if you were in Japan or wherever, how.

How were you getting into?

Because, like, with it being sort of early slash no Internet, how were you getting in touch with these private sellers?

It was usually through friends.

It was through people that we.

We had mutual.

A mutual friend that was a DJ or collector that would say, oh, you're going to Japan.

You should hook up with DJ Miro or whoever that connect us.

What can you share about Miuro then?

Because for me, he's one of the best around, man.

He's amazing.

So inspiring and just true school, you know, he's really about it.

And we just saw.

Me and Jake saw about a year ago when we were in Japan, we got to go see him play.

Yeah, he's.

He's so good.

And he came out here, came by my place and I remember we.

He wanted to go shoe shopping.

We went to a sneaker spot.

I think he bought like a hundred pair of sneakers and he was paying retail price and he told me, oh, I'm going to sell these.

Like, I'm going to double the price and sell these in my store.

And I was like, is it like.

I'm thinking it's not going to be too much.

No one's going to buy him.

But I guess it works for him.

I mean that this.

There's a word for it, isn't there?

For what the Japanese collectors are.

I can't remember someone was telling me the term.

And it's just for like whatever thing you can be into.

They've just got these sort of master.

Level collections, literally whenever, whatever.

So as well as records then.

I mean, sort of Hip hop memorabilia is a big thing for you, isn't it?

Yeah, for sure.

When did you start collecting that?

Has that just been all the way through or was there a certain point?

I didn't think about things over the years, as I think a lot of us don't.

So there was like certain flyers from early shows or even disco discos when I was younger that I had that.

It was nothing to me.

I just threw it in the trash.

Now think, oh, I would die to have this flyer, you know.

Yeah, a lot of that stuff is tough to come by.

So I used to go to the New Music Seminar a lot in New York.

I met just about everybody when I would get business cards from people and I saved them.

All the rap guys and rap labels, the DJs, and I had them tucked away in a cupboard.

And one day I was looking around and I didn't see him.

I'm like, hey, where's my cards?

And then my wife was like, oh, I threw those things away.

She was like, why would you collect garbage?

Like, why would you have those?

And like, oh, I didn't say nothing, but I was hurt.

Yeah, yeah, that's not a surprise.

So you put out quite a lot of releases on the label, didn't you?

Can you talk a bit about those?

Yeah, so basically I just Wanted to be a dope label.

I wasn't trying to put Seattle on the map or nothing like that.

We just wanted to be a good record label that put out great music.

And my.

One of my favorite records is the Grassroots Passes Through Time, which I think is very underrated.

It's rare now.

If you see it, it's probably 300 bucks.

2, 300 bucks.

I see it on the wall.

It stores from time to time.

Yeah.

And we put out a compilation, Walkman Rotation, which I had Jayrock do the.

Do the mix.

It's kind of like a mixtape.

And I had J Rock do it.

And he was saying on a recent podcast, like, I'm the one that really put him on, that nobody really knew who he was.

And then he said after that, Raucous approached him.

He did sound bombing, but he did ours first.

And it's funny, when I look back at stuff, there's a lot of firsts.

When I say we were the first group on Ubiquity Records.

I was on the first release on OHM Records, which went on to be a big house label.

I was in the first issue of Wax Poetics.

You know, things like that.

The first one to work with J Rock like that.

A lot of firsts.

First king of the drum break, I guess so.

So, yeah, it was.

I was listening to the.

The Grassroots earlier on.

Like, it is really good.

And I think it's like.

It's a testament to your ear really, isn't it, that it's.

That it's such a high value record now.

Right.

That's another thing.

A lot of my records, if you go look there, a lot of them are high value.

Yeah.

Not all of them, but nine out of 10 are.

But I think with it as well, I've been going through a few bits of sort of best odds on the label because there's a lot of stuff on there I'd like.

It's kind of before I was getting into hip hop because I was quite late getting into it.

But like I was saying before, I just think the beats on them are wicked.

Yeah.

And it's kind of.

It's that same sort of feel as say, like some of the spinner stuff and like some of the diller stuff of the era as well.

You know, really sort of jazzy and rich.

How much of your ear do you think is instinctive for whether something's going to be good and how much do you think it's something you've learned through DJing?

I just think it's 100% my ear, for sure.

How.

How quickly do you make your mind up?

So say, when I'm record shopping, I'm just listening to the groove of something.

If I think something's got a nice groove and a nice sound to it, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

So I might listen to sort of like five seconds of a track rather than really thinking.

And sometimes it's like, I'll get something.

It's like, yeah, sonically, it's great.

It's a really nice groove, but it's not a great track.

Like, how long did.

How long do you sort of listen to something to assess it?

It's funny because probably this is going to sound funny.

Probably like half a second.

Like, the needle barely touches it and I can hear it already.

And I'm like, yep.

And I'll take it and I'll put it aside.

Yep, I'm getting this.

And people look at me like I'm nuts.

And they're like, you didn't even listen to it.

What do you mean?

But it.

I hear it almost instantly, almost immediately.

And if I don't hear it immediately, I'll needle drop down the track, you know, and then I might hit a part that I hear.

I'll be, oh, yeah, this is it.

Or.

So are you listening more for dj?

No, more for sampling.

All.

All of it is.

So here's the thing.

I haven't made beats in probably 20 years, but I still buy.

Like I am.

I still buy samples, I still buy breaks.

It's never left me.

Yeah.

And I think in my mind or in my head, I'm going to make beats again.

Like, it's still in me.

I do it.

Like, I go through my records and I've got stuff just because it's got a nice clap on it or a nice little bass line.

It's like I'm never going to get around to doing anything with it.

Right.

But if you're like, well, didn't cost too much, worth doing.

So.

Con Men.

Yes.

Can you talk a bit about that?

About how you met Jake and.

Because, I mean, the Con Men mixes are amazing.

Yeah.

Those have definitely stood the test of time, people.

Somebody just hit me up last week trying to buy some copies.

I'm like, those are long ago.

But I used to manage a record store.

And I came in, I came in one day and the guy, my employee, was like, playing some beats and they were really good.

I said, oh, what is.

What are you playing?

He said, oh, this kid Jake that comes in and I said, that little kid, because he was.

He was still in high school at the time.

I mean, I was on my own, had my first apartment, you know, was a little older, a few years older.

And I said, damn, that's him.

And so when he came in, I just talked to him.

I just, hey, like, hey, give me your number.

And he wanted to go record shopping with me.

And we went digging, like, the next day, and we just clicked.

We were, like, inseparable for a number of years at that point, you were always together and that's.

I had my label concepts and records.

I'm like, well, we'll be the Conception Men, the producers for Conception Records.

So for short, it was the Con Men.

And so that's how we got together.

I think.

Yeah, because I think with the brakes mixes, they're just really slick.

So, you know, there's having the breaks and then there's making this, like, really sort of smooth collage within which you guys seem to do really well.

Right.

And so I used to make those tapes just for myself, just to listen to while I'm driving around to get ideas to make beats.

Like, oh, that's dope.

I. I could sample this, or I could loop that, or I could chop this.

And then Jake was the one that said, oh, we should put these out, or let's make a tape together.

Put it out.

I was like, nobody wants to hear this.

Like, who wants to hear two seconds of a song?

Of a song?

Like, I was like, nobody would want to hear it.

And I.

So we did it, and I think we sold a hundred, like, instantly.

And then again, no Internet or nothing, but they started making the rounds.

I think it was people traveling or dubbing them.

Like, I remember getting reviews in German hip hop magazines.

And I'm like, how did that happen?

Like, how did they get it?

And I mean, they probably sold thousands over the years.

I don't know how many they've sold, but people still like her.

They always had some quite crazy titles as well, didn't they?

Yeah, like Jealous Toys Die Young and stuff like that.

Yeah, we were trying to.

We were being funny.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So was Jake the other sort of main producer on the label then?

Yeah, he was.

He.

He actually started becoming the main producer on label.

He was so good at what he did.

And.

And I was just dealing with a bunch, with life, basically.

Like, my father had passed away.

I was getting a divorce and just losing my mind, you know, trying to navigate through life.

Yeah.

And running a label and being a DJ at the same time.

Right.

You're kind of trying to forge two different paths.

Yeah, I was doing a lot at the same time.

It's a lot to take on because.

When did you start doing the radio shows?

I forgot what year the first one was.

I think it was mid-90s, mid-90s.

And I ended up.

It's a long story, but I ended up getting let go for a really weird roundabout reason that wasn't my fault at all.

And then during COVID is when I went back.

So it had been a long period of time, but they called me during COVID and asked me to come beyond.

And I said sure, because I wasn't doing anything.

I was locked in my house, I wasn't doing anything.

So of course, yeah, I'll come beyond.

But I told them as soon as this Covid's over, I'm out of there.

I ain't going to be around because I move around too much, I travel too much.

That's what I was going to ask you because what I'd read it, it looked like you'd been doing it consistently for the last couple of decades or something as I'd interpreted it right.

But I got on and I love it.

It's probably my favorite gig because I can 100% play what I want to play.

Yeah, I can get weird if I want to.

And I get paid to do it and have listenership around the world.

So I love her.

And so now I tell them I'm not leaving, I'm not going anywhere.

And I'm here till I'm not.

Amazing.

I've read things that you've done quite a lot in terms of giving back to the community.

Is.

Is it important to you to be kind of preserving and maintaining and growing that Seattle hip hop community then?

Yeah, I think so.

And it's grown so, so big over the years.

It's gotten really good.

We have world championship break dancers, we have world champion DJs.

And you know, Jake 1 is incredible.

Multiple Grammys, platinum records, gold records.

Like every big name rapper you could think of, he's worked with.

And it's pretty dope, really dope to see everybody do their thing.

So back to digging.

When you're digging for things like, like, I find it exciting if I find something for one or two pounds that's just got a bit of something on it that it might be like, I found this kind of.

It's.

It's like a Christian rock record but with some like fairly hard drums on it.

And I think, okay, I like, I'm excited about this because it's different.

Have you got a way that you approach digging to try and find the things that are different that people aren't upon?

Because.

Because that's what excites me.

When I show something to someone I know that knows loads about stuff and they're like, I don't know that that's what I get a buzz from.

That's what excites me, too.

I want to know what I don't know.

That totally excites me.

Whether it's a good track to play for a party or it's a break or a sample or whatever.

So I don't really have an approach now.

When I was starting out, there was, say, like, something on, you know, Cadet Records, right.

And I've heard, like, a Ramsey Lewis playing in the store.

Something.

I look, oh, Cadet Record Records.

And then in my mind I thought, that label's trash.

There's nothing on there.

It's just like some dinner music, dinner jazz.

And then maybe like a month later, I hear Marlene Shaw, California Soul.

I'm like, what is that?

I'm like, oh, that's on that label.

What?

I'm like, well, I can't be prejudiced against the label.

I better start listening to everything.

Yeah.

On that label.

So my approach is listen to everything, listen without prejudice.

You never know.

I feel like some of the dopest records look like the wackest records, and vice versa.

You can have something that looks crazy and it sucks.

Yeah.

I got this one a few weeks ago.

It looks like some sort of.

Like it's gonna be some, like, cool psych guitar sort of thing, and it's just.

Right.

Always a letdown.

Yeah.

You can't judge it by its cover at all.

No.

Which is.

Which is.

I mean, I. I always go cover first, I think, obviously label.

But then, like, I look at the COVID If the COVID looks a bit interesting or like it's naff to the point where it could be good, that's when I look.

Because I like a lot of, like, late 70s stuff.

And I feel like with the late 70s stuff, with the artwork, you look at it and it's hard to know whether it's going to be Prague punk metal or R and B.

So it's like.

It's a.

It's really confusing that.

So you've got to.

You've got to try anything that looks that certain sort of illustrated style.

Yeah.

It's funny because I'll go out and I'll tell people records talk to me.

And I'm like, what are you Saying, like, see this record over here?

It's telling me to get it.

And I don't even know what it is.

I just picked it up.

It was like this Mexican record.

I just picked it up.

Like, for some reason, this record's telling me to get it, and I'm looking at it.

I said, I couldn't tell you why.

And they had a listening station, so I said, well, let's listen to it.

And I put it on.

It was a monster break beat right from the jump.

And people, like, see, you're like a magnet to these records.

They just come to you.

Yeah.

But I don't know what that was.

I don't know why.

I don't know what that was.

I was just like, okay, this record is telling me get it.

And it was a monster.

So let me.

I'm just going to check a message.

Right.

Where are we?

Let me see.

Because I asked a couple of people if they had particular questions for you.

Oh, great.

And Case from Nashville writes in to say, when has being known as the guy that's got it bitten you in the ass?

Probably when Discogs came out.

Because when Discogs came out.

I mean, even.

Even like, Instagram or even ways that you can contact me.

Because we can all contact each other now.

Yeah.

And people will hit me up or hound me for something or.

I had a guy hit me up, and he was begging for an MP3, can you please rip this record for me?

And then I'm like, I don't know this guy.

Like, why am I just going to rip one of my records for a stranger?

Anyways, he hits me up and he's like, I'll send you $100 if you rip this record for me.

So I'm like, okay, I do that.

And it was about five months later, the record was bootlegged and came out.

I saw it for sale, and I was like, oh, I know.

That's the guy.

I know that's why he wanted the files.

So I stopped doing that.

I won't rip none for, you know, I'll rip some for a friend of mine, give it to him, or try trade files.

But I'm not doing that anymore.

And then I didn't.

And then I didn't realize when Discogs came out, it showed your collection, whatever you had, like, catalog, it showed it so any Joe Blow could go to your page and see your collection.

And so I had to turn that switch off and hide it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Have you got any biz stories that you could share?

Because I'm assuming You've had quite a lot.

Just given the collecting and stuff.

I'm assuming you've had quite a lot to sort of interaction with him.

Yeah, that was my man.

That was my man.

50 grand.

Rest in peace.

The great biz Mark E. I think he's the greatest thing in hip hop, if you ask me.

So very well rounded and amazing.

All his stuff was great.

I mean, there's a thousand biz stories.

I wouldn't even know where to start.

I couldn't even tell you where to start.

He might.

I mean, a funny, funny one is like, if you go to see him and he was like, oh, I need to go grocery shopping and go with him and he has like pajamas on and he'll go get a cart and go to the cereal aisle and just with his arm, just hit like 10 boxes of cereal into the cart and say, okay.

And then just go up to the restaurant, he's ready to go.

And that was his way of grocery shopping.

So stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah.

Was he.

Did you guys do a lot of trading together?

Because you're both kind of guys that have got it, aren't you?

Yeah.

So here's the thing about biz is some of the stuff he says sounds like a lie.

It sounds so far fetched and then it won't be.

He'll prove you wrong, especially if you're calling them a liar.

But as far as trading, he promised me a lot of things that I never got, but I would send him what he was asking for.

He got what he wanted.

And I think he.

I think he really meant well.

And he was.

He would give me what I asked for.

He just didn't.

He just didn't get around to it.

Or maybe he's too busy.

I don't know.

I don't think he meant that on purpose.

Yeah.

And what's your take on the Mardi Gras without the cowbells?

What's my take on it?

Not real.

I have one.

Oh, I have one.

It's real.

But people will argue that it's not real.

Business story is that at the pressing plant, when they cut the lacquer, the needle broke.

There's a needle that cuts the lacquer and it cut the lacquer wrong.

So it's kind of not necessarily pan, but the bills are real thin, faint.

And so when they did the test pressing and they heard it, they're like, oh, no, that's wrong.

So there was a couple test pressings that were made that way.

That's his story.

Another story is they were TV tracks and cut for live performances on tv where the band would play the bills live over the track, which that was on that surface on the Internet as well.

If somebody had found a tape reel and played the tape.

Right.

And it was on there.

But I do have an acetate.

I have an acetate of it and.

And a couple of the CTI briefcases.

Yeah, I was going to ask about the briefcase.

So what is the story with the briefcase?

Because don't you turn up to cross conventions with that.

Yeah, I heard that.

I heard that was like a promo item and the CTI reps would give them to their clients.

Like if a record store spent so much money or something, they might be gifted this record case.

But people have found flyers inside old records where you could order the case.

Yeah.

So it seems like there'd be more around.

It's really hard to find.

Yeah.

Have you got any particular collectibles that stand out for you as more prized than others?

And I don't necessarily mean monetary value, I mean, just more special to you?

I can't really say.

Not especially, because I got a lot of stuff, man.

So I can't really think of something.

I really.

I really like my early hip hop flight flyers and I like my Letters from Rock Steady Crew used to write letters to each other and those would do graffiti and send me that.

So I got those.

So we've talked about a few different sort of partnerships, friendships, kind of interchangeable terms.

There's hot peas and butter as well.

Yes.

So that's you, Double P's and Scheme.

Yes.

Yeah, my squad.

Yeah.

So you're the final one of the squad to be on the Once A DJ podcast.

And I was wondering from your point of view.

I didn't ask either of the others, but it'd be quite nice to get your view on it, having had all three of you on about what makes each of you different as diggers and DJs.

It would be our record collections because we don't have the same exact collections.

But every collection is incredible and absolute fire.

Right.

We always.

Me and Scheme talk all the time about what really sets you apart as a dj.

It's your collection.

If you have something no one else has, how can they compete with that unless they might have an equal amount of heat that you don't have?

And that's kind of how I see us.

And even when I met them, when I met.

I met both of them separately and I felt like they were me.

I'm like looking at my twin.

I'm like, you're me.

I think from what I remember, Double P said it was you guys that pushed her to start DJing more as well.

Right.

She wouldn't play out at all.

And I used to tell her, I don't know if she was nervous or what it was, but I should just say, just do it.

Just play your wreck.

You got the records playing.

Even if you're not nice technically, you can still crush with selection.

Yeah, well, that's, you know, it's more important than any other skill in DJing, isn't it?

Yeah, people.

People worry about mixing and stuff.

And yeah, I've said to people, it doesn't really matter, just if you've got good music, you've got good music, right?

And if you can do it all, then great.

But.

And I guess it depends on what you're into.

There's people that are only into the technicality.

And if you.

If you talk to, like, I've dealt with this crew called Scratcher from out here.

They're all excellent technically, like, but they don't know.

They don't know anything about music.

You know, they could do every scratch known to mankind and be great at it, but when it comes to music or rocking a party, they're not really up on that stuff.

It kind of goes back to my beginning when I told you, when I rocked that first party, I quickly learned, oh, I gotta do some different stuff if I want to make it.

Yes.

So, like, in my mind, the peak of sort of battle DJing was about 95, 96, because you were getting these, you know, you were getting the beat junkies and scratch pickles and people like that come into this sort of apex.

Is that if that's the right word, or sort of zenith of the technicality, but still playing old breaks and stuff like that.

And it was still using things that people know and repurposing things everyone was familiar with before people started using custom records and stuff.

I feel like that was when it was funky and it was technical and it was recognizable.

And that's kind of the peak era.

I couldn't agree more.

That's a dj.

An interesting one.

Yeah, yeah.

Something else I wanted to ask you is about.

You've had a lot of kind of partnerships with people over the past 40 years musically and sort of people you've worked with and stuff like that.

What's the key to having to being able to consistently work with other people in these sort of pairings?

It's a tough one because I feel like no matter what, you're gonna bump heads at some point, right?

Your relationship's gonna be.

Your working relationship's gonna be good.

But it might dissolve or get bumpy along the way because at some point you're probably going to disagree on something.

The thing with, like, me and Jake, we never disagreed on anything.

He just kind of went his way and I went my way.

We just grew older and got families and got lives and like I said, DJing was paying my bills and it still is and kind of where I went.

We're still great friends.

We talk every day.

Like I said, we just went to Japan not too long ago together and sometimes we'll DJ out together.

I djed with sure Shot from the Sharpshooters last weekend.

I was in Los Angeles and he had a party.

It was great seeing him.

And I'm still friends.

Friends with all these guys, so couldn't have been too bad.

You know, they.

We just.

It lasts until it doesn't, you know, Nothing lasts forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, Jake doesn't Even particularly like DJing, does he?

No, not at all.

He doesn't like it at all.

It's.

Yeah, I was.

I was chatting to him.

Brian linked me to him and I had a chat.

I was trying to get him on the show, but it just never happened.

Right.

But I chatted to him briefly about it and it is interesting his what DJing is for him.

It's just like a means to produce, really, isn't it?

Right.

And a former guest we had on Brian Rosh and Back Nostalgia B.

He was part of a team that opened up Shibuya hi Fi in Seattle.

And I think you.

You were quite involved in that, weren't you?

Yes, I'm part of the team as well.

Yeah.

So what, what was that like for you then?

Because I'd imagine in terms of.

In terms of the DJ setup and stuff, I'd assume you probably had quite a big sort of hand in that and thinking about how it was experienced.

Yeah, definitely.

I said that.

I mean, well, we set it up together.

I'm going to take full credit.

You know, we set it up together and I was really excited about it because once again, it's opening another door and chapter in what I'm doing and what I'm involved with.

And it seems to be such A popular thing at the moment.

Hi Fi bars.

And I was there, hands on, working for about a year.

I've kind of walked away from it at this point.

I'm still a partner, I'm still part of the team.

I'm just not hands on like I was.

We don't really have DJs coming in.

It's just more like a listening thing now.

So we have listening sessions.

Is it.

Have you still got the.

It's.

You had like the main bar and then the sort of listening room correct off it, didn't you?

Correct, yeah.

The setup's still the same.

So were you having DJs before?

But that's changed.

We were having DJs before and the main partner kind of expressed he doesn't want it to be a nightclub, which it wasn't.

He just.

He really is into the listening thing.

Right.

And he got in.

It's funny, the way he got into it was when he went to buy the speakers I told him to get.

And he went to the stereo shop and they have a listening room.

They're like, well, come listen to him in here.

And he thought that was so great that he.

Well, we have the space too.

It kind of made sense.

When you see the setup and the layout, he's like, I want to do a listening room back here.

So initially we were going to do the listening room and then maybe it stops at 9pm Then we have DJs from like 9 to 2 or 3, 9 to 1.

That's how we were going to do it initially, but we decided to just have the listening.

Yeah, it's quite a difficult thing to balance out with listening bars, isn't it?

What exactly it is, right?

Because you got to think about the volume of people, how it's being consumed and stuff.

Because there's one I've played at.

And it's like.

I remember when I went in to check it out one day before I'd chatted to anyone there and I was like, I'd heard about it.

So I went.

I went into it and I was chatting to the.

To the girl who was doing the table.

I can't remember what the technical term, you know, like the floor manager and sort of asking her about the system and she's like, oh, would you like me to turn it up?

And I was like, yeah, yeah, that'd be good.

And then so I was there having my drink and my lunch and then I was like, are you gonna turn it up?

And she was like, this person over here just asked me to turn it down.

Yeah.

And it's that sort of thing, isn't it?

If you've got somewhere where people want to talk as well.

It's.

It's a super difficult one.

And even just like, do you have turntables there that are optimized for listening or optimized for DJing?

Because, you know, if you're trying to DJ on a set of techniques with like a Riga straight tone arm and stuff like that, you know, it can make them a bit.

Or like, you know, or they're like super high talk or whatever, they can feel a lot different to DJ on.

Right.

And then another thing is, like, no dancing, because they just want people to listen.

But then how do you stop people that start dancing?

Because people would start dancing.

Right?

Yeah.

That is the downside of having good DJs, I guess.

Right.

And I was only bringing in the best of the best.

That's it, right?

Toronto.

Yes.

King of the drum break.

I've not seen any footage of it, but could you tell me a bit about that battle?

Yeah.

So they have this thing called Live Convention that's been going on, which ended.

They now do Crater Recon.

And so for all the years I've been there, there's somebody up there called Headreck Hinder, and he does a break blitz every week on Instagram.

That's amazing.

Strictly break beats.

Great dude.

Amazing breaks.

And he's from out there.

And they would always crack jokes when I'm around, hey, why don't you and Headreck battle each other with breaks?

You.

You could play a break.

And I said, I'm down for that.

I'm with that.

And they said, seriously?

I said, I'm with it.

And so when they did Crater Recon, they made it happen.

And they hit me up.

They talked to him.

They hit me up and said, okay, if you guys are serious and want to do this, then we could do this.

Large professor is going to be the judge.

And you play 10 breaks.

And he plays 10 breaks.

And it's so funny because they called me, like two days before I was supposed to leave to go out there, and they said, okay, you need to bring a Christmas record, a gospel record, a rock record, a funk 45.

They're giving me all these categories, and I'm like, you know how spread out my records are and not in order and all over the place.

I said, there's no way I can grab the records and time that I want to grab to do this.

But I was like, I'll grab whatever.

I'll Grab what I grab.

And that's what I did.

And I didn't.

I didn't take it too seriously.

And I thought he's.

I just thought.

Natural thought, he's going to win anyway.

It's his hometown.

It's his people.

And I guess.

People.

I guess.

I guess what.

The word got back to me that people were asking around, who's going to win, who's going to win?

And nobody said, me.

Everybody said, oh, him.

Head wreck easily.

Head wreck easily.

I said, huh.

I wonder why they thought that.

I mean, I even thought it, you know, Like, I said, it's his hometown.

But I guess because he does the break blitz, so that's what he's really known for.

And, I mean, I might play a break here and there on my Instagram.

I'm not really known for breaks, but again, I've been buying them a long time and I've never stopped, so there's that, you know.

But I ended up winning.

Yeah.

I mean, I was listening to one of your mixes the other week that had loads of good breaks on it.

So it's not too wild a surprise, was it, Given what you said about breaking atoms?

Because I've had that on rotation again in my kitchen the past few days, and I was.

I was listening to it the other day, and I kind of feel like, you know, sometimes you'll listen to an album or a piece of music and it just hits you differently.

Yes.

Jesus.

Not the.

Just the way that everything is layered so well on that album.

It's incredible.

That album is a masterpiece.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, like, is there something extra in it being Large Professor?

That's the judge of the competition.

No, but I thought in my mind, I thought in my mind, like, what am I going to play if he's the judge?

I better play something that I think he might like.

Not necessarily the Crowd or Head Wreck himself.

Or, for instance, like, one of the categories was Christmas records.

I'm like, well, Millie and Silly is probably my favorite Christmas break that he used on that album.

I'm like, I don't want to play that.

He used it already.

And I think I'm trying to, like, kiss up to the judge, right?

Or something.

But Dan Hedrick played it.

That was the record he played.

And then I didn't know what I was gonna do for Christmas records.

I do have a few.

And I remember I was going through the records and I found this record that said something about snowflakes, and I'm like, what is this?

There was a Christmas record, and I Put it on.

And it had a crazy break on it.

I was like, okay, this is the one I'm bringing.

I don't even know why I had that record.

Oh, I do not know.

Now I have the record, but I didn't even know that break was on it.

I'm like, what is this?

And yeah, so that was what I brought for that category.

Nice.

The last thing, is there anything that you can think of that's a glaring thing that we've not talked about?

Like anything massive that we've missed?

I would say there's nothing massive.

There's so much, there's so much to talk about.

Yeah, we could talk for hours, literally.

Yeah.

I think because you've done so much, we've just kind of gone from here to here to here to here to here, you know, So I just wanted to check.

Okay, so just the, the last thing that I want to kind of get into with you today because we've gone in a lot of different directions and there's so many different things that you could end up having a sort of long form conversation about, but I think we've covered a lot.

The last thing is a piece of writing that you did maybe 10 years ago where you did an article about being the warm up DJ and about kind of the, about appreciating the good of it rather than thinking, oh, I'm the warm up.

Like that really struck for me.

I thought it was really a really good piece of writing.

Could you talk a little bit about that?

About what was in it?

Yeah, I remember I was at lunch with my friend DJ Singh and he was just talking about everyone's hunger to be a headlining dj.

And I said, no one's hungry to be an opening dj.

He kind of laughed, but I was like, no, I'm serious.

I'm like dead ass serious.

Because I was like, you know how much dope music you get to play being an opening dj?

And I like, I was like, man, I really take pride in that and like being dope yourself and navigating through your set and not playing everything, you know, a headliner is going to play and, but, but making it great, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I mean, I've had people tell me I'm better than the headliner, you know, doing opening sets, but I just think it's a great position to be and I think you can learn a lot, you can try stuff out and see, get a reaction from the crowd, see if it works, works or doesn't, you know, things like that.

Yeah.

And it is like you say, you know, you're kind of responsible for.

You're laying out how this night is going to feel to people.

It's like an exciting opportunity, isn't it?

You know, you set the tone.

You really do.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it was a really good article.

I'll try and find a link for it if I can.

I think.

I don't even.

Was that like, the MySpace?

No, not the MySpace.

No, it was on my blog, I think.

Right, right.

Is that still up?

It should be.

Awesome.

Yeah, I'll try and dig that out.

Supreme, the Rock.

I've really appreciated your time today.

We've got into some.

Some really good stuff.

And just one last thing to ask you.

Is there any other piece of advice that you think is important for DJs that we've not mentioned?

Because we've had a lot of good insights.

Yeah, I would just say really be true to yourself.

A lot of DJs, a lot of the newer DJs, I don't even know why they DJ.

They're not.

They want to DJ without DJing, if that makes.

I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but they're not into the culture at all.

They.

They don't care about music.

They're not out looking for records.

They don't practice.

I don't know why they want to do it, but if you want to do it, do it for real.

And be true to yourself.

And don't quit.

If you quit, you.

You won't get there.

And that's the secret, right?

Where can people find you?

Online at Supreme Laroque.

Across the board.

Amazing.

Great stuff.

Well, I'll let you get back to your day and, yeah, thanks a lot for your time.

Much appreciated.

Oh, that was nice.